Anonymous commented:
"I am very astonished about the loss of recognition of my former brothers and about the way many of you speak about the church in this blog and in some other websites, instead of fighting for deep humility and to find out the deep roots and reasons of your sins which led to the exclusion. Only this may help to remain in relation with God. Not the church is guilty but we our self. It is not our task to criticise and accuse the community, although not everything was good. We all where church and responsible at that time. Now, we can have an influence only on our lives! "
Yes, we were all responsible and we should have shared our recognitions already there more clearly, but it wasn't easy, as explained in the previous comments of the linked topic.
Concerning me, there was a time when I was examining myself in front of God and the community's teaching, and repenting as well as I could. I was thinking, praying and reading the Bible much and God clearly supported me during this time. I had also talks with the community. My final conclusion was: I wasn't excluded, first of all, for my selfishness or lack of faith in God, but for my lack of faith in the community. Unfortunately, their main interest was not my relationship with God, but submission to the community. I think most of them sincerely wanted to help me, being convinced this was right in front of God. So it was love, but in my opinion lacking some recognition.
As I realized I could not sincerly agree with the community in some matters in the light of the Bible, I saw it loving (according to community's own measure), to share my recognitions. I wrote to them, but as they think they cannot learn anything from the excluded ones, I decided also to publish my thoughts for those who happen to become open to learn from it.
Unfortunately, I don't have much free time, so I don't manage to write very deeply and exhaustively, but only some thougts.
Another comment:
"My only task I see now as excluded one, is to fight for a deep regret and not to loose the right cognitions and standard, not to fall into grave sins."
Yes, I also think, it is important not to fall into grave sins.
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7 comments:
Maybe my attitude is not good, because I see too critically the things.
But I think God does not expect our self-torture through constant deep regrets and through fear to fall into grave sins (that maybe our community expects).
I've seen also outside the community persons, who like to expose their sins and to testify, that now they are free from sins at last! And next time I see them, they start again, that they sinned so gravely, and now they are free from this at last. Etc, etc.
I've serious doubts, whether this closed circle is the fight for holy life that God expects from us. It would rather drive somebody mentally ill before meeting God eye to eye.
I would recommend for excluded ones to read Mt 5:38-48 and 1 Cor 13 :-D
Because I recognised, that these passages helped me a lot. There aren't depictured only behavioral examples and outward beatitudes of God's love, but these show the core concept of God's love, i.e. FORGIVENESS. These are signs there, that you have been able to forgive. If we are able to forgive, then God forgives us, too.
Whatever critics I have written here, please forgive me. Let's make peace... And I would really wait the fortunate day, when I could meet once with all my friends and enemies, to have a cup of tea together and discuss, how to be reconciled with each other, how to love each other.
Josef A., Gerald K., and all Anonymous persons who posted here comments. You are welcome in my house! But I would give my address rather personally, through e-mail, which you may find in my website.
Hey, I would just like to know how you feel about God's grace now? What did you think about it then?
And about grave sins, I think that we should avoid them, but to always keep in mind that God wants to deal with the heart most of all and not with outward behavior. Grave sins are just a manifestation of a sick heart. They are no reason for self-improvement but to honestly draw near to God knowing that he loves us no matter what happens and that there is no condemnation for those who are in Jesus Christ. (Rom. 8:1)
Often the problem in my opinion is that when we sin we try to change ourselves by the flesh instead of coming to God openly and letting the Spirit do His gentle purifying work in our hearts. Thinking together with all-forgiving and loving God why we do what we do. His grace is sufficient for us.
God bless you. I have a relative who is in the same group at the moment. That is how I found your blog.
I don't remember, whether I THOUGHT very much about God's grace. Of course, I remember several topics and discussions, where God's grace was central topic.
But in me became dominating a strong FEELING, that God's grace was valid for me until I manage to run the race together with our community (1 Cor 9:24-27). God's grace became step by step for me equal to the grace of community. To be a Christian was de facto delimited with the membership of this community. (I think it sounds even now for me quite logical, if one tries to equal this community with the only right church.)
The more I saw, how 'fragile' was the God's grace in the community because of frequent exclusions, the more it designed my understanding about God's grace. God's grace became for me rich of conditions, which I could not understand. Because there were several exclusions in the community, which were irrational, above my head.
About NOW - I am currently so fascinated by the passages Mt 5:38-48 and 1 Cor 13, that I don't have much words... Something I wrote about in my website here.
About grace see this post.
R.A
Again your comment on the grace of God in the community is so similar to the understanding of it in the Roman Catholic Church. Grace being in the only true church which according to the community is only in the community. So there is no real grace outside of it? It is similar to what RCC teaches. At least that has been their teaching historically.
Biblically for me it would make more sense to say that the grace of God is free. (Eph. 2:8-9) So to mix God's grace with conditions would be to distort the gospel and to preach another one. This is just my opinion. Although I have good scriptural support for this view I know that most people don't agree with me.
Still grace is the only thing that makes Christianity unique. So understanding grace biblically is to understand the most important thing in this life.
Yes, you're right. I wanted to be honest saying what I am THINKING still about grace. Or I don't know how it is better to say... I didn't want to say, what I think it would be right, but what kind of THINKING is still prevailing in me now, or what I am FEELING now.
Let's say, although the mindset of community concerning grace is prevailing in me, I know nevertheless, that I must re-think many questions. My thinking has been 'formated' by community.
It sounds for me right, that God's grace is free, as you said. But what does it mean? I have to find answer for it.
So, my mind is 'under construction'. I have to find logical, reasonable answers to many questions, which didn't pop up before, because in the community many things were out of question.
After exclusion I have had to learn much 'outside the box', in the categories, which in the community were void or which community liked to simplify very much, in order to make the things easier to grasp, disprove. And one of these questions is grace.
Other words, I know also with my reason, that God's grace is much more than I perceived in the community. But what does it actually mean? This is question for me. I must find the answers from the grassroots on. But I am not afraid of re-thinking. I felt rather after exclusion myself rather as a explorer of the world. Also quite recently I discovered myself the passage Mt 5:38-48 and 1 Cor 13 and it affirmed me a lot. I feel, that these passages are as a key for me to unravel also other questions, incl. God's grace. I wouldn't hurry to catch hold of every good and ready-made ideas about grace yet.
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