When I got to know them in 1999, I asked an older brother about the beginning of their community, and he told me a similar story as it it written in the Apology.. (the Apology is a text by Josef A. to defend us against a Catholic priest and 'sect-expert' Mr. Kluge who has published a blaming booklet about the community.) It was 'similar' in the sense that the brother told: There were several of us in the beginning, we were looking for the right congregation, and not finding it, we concluded that we were the church.
Josef, in his defense, puts it so: "So at the beginning we also hoped to find a community. What we found however were only individual Christians, but no community. Every "confession" we encountered, whether large or small raised its own traditions above the teaching of Jesus and the Apostles. Biblically based criticism was dismissed (most sharply from the so-called Bible Believers). So we had to face the fact that the assembly of believers didn't exist in our geographic vicinity and that according to Gods will, we ourselves were what we had been searching for in vain, namely the Church of God in Vienna."
That time Gottfried Holic, who is named 'the founder of the group' by Mr. Kluge, was still not excluded and had rather much influence. So it was thought already before the decrease of his influence that he was not the only founder, but that it was God's leading to separate from existing congregations. Generally, there was a custom not to emphasize roles of individuals. Anyway, as much as I know, Gottfried H. played an important role in the community. And it is sad that those who were closer to him, allowed him too much.
Later, i have been told, that in the beginning they didn't meet in a flat. They just went to meetings of congregations, after the 'offical part of the meeting' they continued to talk with those who wanted, until everyone had to go to his home by the last bus or underground train.
Josef, in his defense, puts it so: "So at the beginning we also hoped to find a community. What we found however were only individual Christians, but no community. Every "confession" we encountered, whether large or small raised its own traditions above the teaching of Jesus and the Apostles. Biblically based criticism was dismissed (most sharply from the so-called Bible Believers). So we had to face the fact that the assembly of believers didn't exist in our geographic vicinity and that according to Gods will, we ourselves were what we had been searching for in vain, namely the Church of God in Vienna."
That time Gottfried Holic, who is named 'the founder of the group' by Mr. Kluge, was still not excluded and had rather much influence. So it was thought already before the decrease of his influence that he was not the only founder, but that it was God's leading to separate from existing congregations. Generally, there was a custom not to emphasize roles of individuals. Anyway, as much as I know, Gottfried H. played an important role in the community. And it is sad that those who were closer to him, allowed him too much.
Later, i have been told, that in the beginning they didn't meet in a flat. They just went to meetings of congregations, after the 'offical part of the meeting' they continued to talk with those who wanted, until everyone had to go to his home by the last bus or underground train.
9 comments:
It is a good sign for the mercy of God and for the community. It is a sign for the responsibility of each member of the body according to ones obedience. God can lead the community just by the obedience of each one. We can not shift the blame on the community but rather see the lack of love in our self. On this example is rather shown well the patience and longanimity of God in the way how He carried many of us.
-GOOD IDEAS-
I agree, that nevertheless every member of community had much influence and responsibility.
But there is something I don't agree with in Anonymous' opinion.
It is really wonderful, when some people recognise, that he is the only one and true church and all the other denominations are wrong. But actually this is the typical beginning for many kind of sects, because they are so self-focused and see the holding of right teaching only in their hands. Monopolising the truth thus manner for small clique leads to presuppose outside thins mostly in black colours and therefore is community also afraid of critique from outside.
Anonymous praises the community, but does not want to agree with any critique in this posting. We know about GH's behaviour, that he wasn't actually very good sign for the mercy of God and for the community. Patience and self-control as a fruit of Holy Spirit wasn't visible in his attitude towards outsiders (whom we also are called to love by Jesus, not to hate).
I think our community's idea about equality of members was really visible. It was an important thing for us. Nevertheless there were more influencial figures like GH, Josef A. etc. They were 'elders', they had 'more recognised' from God. There were several brothers, who encouraged and admonished others, and some of them only were the receivers of admonishments and encouragements. I think also, that it was much up to one's own responsibility to tak activity, responsibility. But I want to say, how the things WERE and ARE still actually in the community, and not just the idea how the things must be according to community's point of view.
In my presence there in the community I saw many members, who slept during the 'topic'. And I think it wasn't just because they had a long night of driving behind to the WE meeting, but it was from their little interest (or also little knowledge) about this topic, which caused the sleeping. I myself was inactive. Sometimes the topic wasn't very interesting, sometimes I had little courage. Many reasons for it.
What I want to point is, that we We mythologisized our equality. We idealized our interest to Bible too much. We mythologisized our activity.
I have seen often outside the community interest to Bible, which is bigger than it was among some members of our community. In my estimation there were approximately 20% of members, who were just flowing downstream. Actually they flew upstream, because they were 'encouraged', but going upstream wasn't out of their wish, rather out of outward influencing. It is good, that we showed trust towards these members, that they will change, but I think this was also partly because we wanted to give picture about us as a church, where EVERYONE is engaged and eager.
I think the solution here is not to shift the line of membership closer or broader, but to stop thinking about community as an only true fellowship of Christ, who solely know what is right and others should be in the role of little pupils, who have no idea about the truth.
I think community is on the threshold of crisis. Community must OPEN itself towards others' advises. To hear the advice of others is not agreeing with their doctrine as whole. But other denominations, who surely had in the same way bad times, could give an advice, how to come out from this situation. They could do us good, help us to exist and not to destroy us.
Community has to change concerning its distrust towards others. Other denominations are not devils, who only want to put down our community and misuse the information/background about us. The more we distrust and despise others, the more community is regarded in the same way.
I think we liked to see our community sprung from the first century church. And I think it is normal, when one church identifies itself with the first christians.
Nevertheless we can trace back the history of our congregation, i.e. to the GH person. I think we didn't see any congregational succession after 1st century up to recent time. Right before GH there wasn't retrospectively seen any true church.
There could be seen the continuation of Christian faith maybe only by several unknown Christians without congregationally known identity (I think we didn't acknowledge any specific denomination delivering the right teaching as a whole up to the 1970's).
So we must admit, that GH settled the only visible congregation which is accepted going down to the very first centuries of the history of christianity.
But think positively, in this point of view our community is quite young. The cultivated dogmas and lifestyle are almost unchanged, but it has been so only several decades. It would be easier to change or modify for us than e.g. for Catholics.
I have some hope, that this train will stop and brothers-sisters will think over both the priorities and also the positive and negative consequences of these priorities.
Here ends my monologue.
I meant, God testifies his mercy, love and longanimity, how some of us including G.H., in spite of his grave sins, were carried out by the community, the church of Christ.
To R.A.
It is a pity, that you were among us and didn't understand the reasons of our lifestyle and, from you so called, „dogmas“.
I am very thankful, that you revealed me the community's interpretation about 1 Cor 7:9 concerning flaming (under the posting "It is better to marry than to be aflame").
Dear L,
I don't know who you are. I would like to respect your anonymity. I would like to ask you to do the same with mine. Please delete my full name from your blog. Thank you!
Josef
Dear Josef,
I hope I found all your full names to change.
I wonder how is it going with you?
Dear L,
thank you for the changes! Can you do the same with the German version or ask the one who is responsible for it to do it.
Josef
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